The following is a partial list of Rabbis and Sages who were either Zionists or who were not Anti-Zionist, many of whom you would not read about on TrueTorahJews.org (originally jewsagainstzionism.com):
- Rabbi Yehudah HaLevi (The Kuzari)
- The Netziv
- The Avnei Nezer
- The Vilna Goan
- Rabbi Yosef Kahaneman (The Ponevezh Rav)
- The Aderes
- Rabbi Elchonon Spector
- Rabbi Isser Zalman Meltzer
- Rabbi Yaakov Kamanetsky
- Rabbi Yosef Soloveitchik
- Rabbi Eliyahu Dessler (M'chtav MeliYahu)
- Rabbi Moshe Feinstein
- Rabbi Shlomo Zalman Aurbach
- Rabbi Eliezer Waldenberg (Tzitz Eliezer)
- Rabbi Yaakov Moshe Charlop
- Rabbi Aryeh Levine
- Rabbi Yitzhak HaLevi Herzog
- Rabbi Tzvi Pesach Frank
- Rabbi Avraham HaCohen Kook
- Rabbi Yosef Henkin
- Rabbi Tzvi Yehuda Kook
- Rabbi Menachem Mendel Kasher
- Rabbi Shaul Yisraeli
- Rabbi Aharon Soloveitchik
- Rabbi Modechai Eliyahu
- Rabbi Ovadia Yosef
- Rabbi Aharon Lichtenstein
- Rabbi Shlomo Goren
- Rabbi Avraham Shapira
- Rabbi Chaim Druckman
Important to note that not all these Rabbis were Zionists. They were for the most part pro shivas tzion in our time. Some of them celebrated Yom Haatzmaut - Israel Independence Day and some did not.
This is really an amazing list. It definitely puts things in perspective.
ReplyDeleteYes this is a very good list indeed. I would also add in Rav Elchonon Spector to the list.
ReplyDeleteThank you Dave. I added Rav Elchonon Spector to the list.
ReplyDeleteYou should clarify who Yosef Soloveichik is. In fact, the Bais HaLevi belongs in this list too.
ReplyDeleteThere's an article on the subject in HaDoram, No. 48, Nissan 5739. Read it here:
http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=25130&st=&pgnum=115
Where is Rav Tsvi Chayas please?
ReplyDeleteMost of this list are of rabbis who were not Zionists.
ReplyDeleteMany of them were not. I updated the post with that information at the bottom. Thank you.
DeleteDid you get reshus to place all these rabbonim in this list together with Rabbi Kook?
ReplyDeleteThis is not a joke
I imagine Rav Kook would be more than happy to have all these tremendous tzaddikim listed together with him.
DeleteYaakov Emden? He said the Three Oaths is applicable today.
ReplyDeleteI will look into it but for now I removed him from the list. I did add more great names though. Thanks for the comment.
DeleteIn reality the Natruna site does reference some of these rabbis, some like the Kuzari actually as antizionist, even the opinion of Tzvi Yehuda Kook as to why we can't pray too much for redemption (as a counter-example) is referenced in a parsha page. So your list is false anyway, does your idolatry of zionism compels you to lie?
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteIs it necessary to be insulting? Can't you just argue your point?
DeleteI see it as rebuking his action instead of insulting him. I don't know what else makes someone frame an obvious lie like this.
Delete"Idolatry of zionism"
DeleteLets start by first defining the term 'zionism'. Are you willing to do that?
Second, what is your source that zionism is avoda zara? that's a ludicrous claim to make and serious issue of חושד בכשרים without any source to back it up.
Third, what is wrong with the list? I have simply created a list of gedolei yisrael who were not anti-zionists.
Fourth, denying Hashem's involvement in the creation of the modern state of Israel and all the things that are happening with it eg returning to the land after thousands of years, fruits in over-abundance etc etc is a serious issue in emuna and is itself a problem.
Fifth, you cant bring proof from a neturai karta site who are people who even the greatest gedollim want nothing to do with.
But lets start from the top. please define the term zionism and religious zionism and bring a valid source for your claim that being a zionist is avoda zara.
“To say Judaism has existed throughout the ages for one purpose only, namely to establish the State of Israel, is sheer madness, for to equate Judaism with statehood is blasphemy. This mistake is being made by Jews today in Israel.” (David Holtzer, The Rav Thinking Aloud, Transcripts of Personal Conversations with Rabbi Joseph B. Soloveitchik, p. 178.)
Delete“Emotionally, I feel Zionism – religious Zionism – has replaced Torah.” (David Holtzer, The Rav Thinking Aloud, Transcripts of Personal Conversations with Rabbi Joseph B. Soloveitchik, p. 175.)
"Question: Is there any validity to hakamas ha'medinah as far as geulah or shivas tzion is concerned?
No. Yimay ha'Moshiach? No. Since it contributed greatly to the survival of our people it is very important. This itself is important. But all this stupidity - aschalta d'geulah, geulah - I am against it." (David Holtzer, ed., The Rav Thinking Aloud, p. 217.)
He said in a speech before the American Mizrachi party, “… if the State of Israel will become a secular kingdom without Torah, without sanctity, without the Sabbath, without Jewish education, without family purity, a State in which Jewish uniqueness will be erased, then the price we are paying for her in blood and tears is too heavy.” (Rabbi Joseph B. Soloveitchik, The Rav Speaks: Five Addresses on Israel, History, and the Jewish People (New York: Judaica Press, 2002), pp. 138-9.)
I will start a real discussion with you when you actually address what I rebuked you about instead of picking 3 words and attacking a strawman.
DeleteYou didn't say your list is simply a "list of gedolei yisrael who were not anti-zionists". Here is how you presented your list in case you can't see it:
"True Torah Jews Not Found on JewsAgainstZionsim.com
The following is a partial list of Rabbis and Sages you won't read about on TrueTorahJews.org (originally jewsagainstzionism.com):"
And here is what I rebuked you about, there is no way to be more clear than to repeat my comment, again in case you can't see it:
"In reality the Natruna site does reference some of these rabbis, some like the Kuzari actually as antizionist, even the opinion of Tzvi Yehuda Kook as to why we can't pray too much for redemption (as a counter-example) is referenced in a parsha page. So your list is false anyway, does your idolatry of zionism compels you to lie?"
Now assuming you have any honesty and for some reason "forgot" to do the following, I will say exactly what you should have done. Either search in the search bar of the natruna site the names of these rabbis to see if they actually appear or not on the site and remove from the list those that do appear, or simply change the description of your list to actually something like "list of gedolei yisrael who were not anti-zionists".
When you publicize such an obvious lie that can be so easily verified, plus you dismiss a rebuke by picking 3 words out of +50, it doesn't reflect well about your honesty, and zionists need a better image on this regard.
Now actually address my original comment and then i can answer your questions.
Another thing, you don't even know the difference between Natruna and Neturei Karta, better to know it before creating a site in response for the Natruna one and making claims about them, and Natruna has haskomos, see https://www.truetorahjews.org/rabbinic-endorsements
Leonardo (is that even your real name?),
DeleteFirst off, my apologies. I reacted too quickly to your comment without giving it a proper read through and as you said focused on the wrong part.
Second, The above post was written back in 2006. Almost 20 years ago. So at the time many of these Rabbis were not on the original Jewsagainstzionism website.
Third, based on your comment I changed the title of the post to what you see now. In addition, I even added a few names to the list eg R. Chaim Drukman, R Shaul Yisrael etc.
Fourth, despite what anti-zionists may claim, I will keep the Kuzari on my list. After all it is well known that he yearned for the land of Israel and was critical of the Jews of Bavel who did not did make aliya during the times of Ezra HaSofer and instead "remained in Babylon, acquiescing to exile and bondage, just so they would not have to part with their dwellings and businesses"
Thanks you for commenting and bringing to my attention the needed changes to the post.
Yes, that is my name.
DeleteSo now I answer your previous questions.
1. Zionism is nationalism for jews, nationalism is a modern ideology that emerged to replace the decreasing authority of kings and religions, in order to foster servitude to a state in the modern sense of the word. Religious zionism is the desire to combine Torah with this modern ideology.
2. The entire sefer Vayoel Moshe.
3. I already answered it.
4. If what you meant is that the creation of the state is in the plans of Hashem, it obviously is, just like the Holocaust is, the sun rising in the morning is, etc. If you really meant the "involvement of Hashem", sounds like you are comparing it to the revelation at Sinai. Whatever you meant, if you know a little talmud you know that false or true miracles don't define halachah. And putting jews on ships and planes, bringing irrigation, agriculture techniques etc, are obviously not nisim at all, but I guess to you agriculture in the arab emirates or another thing similar is also a nes.
5. I assumed you meant the Natruna site, as I said, it is not a "neturei karta site" and it has the haskoma of the badatz eida chareidis.
Why not put Meir Kahane on your list?
DeleteFirst and foremost, I dont appreciate the condescending tone. There is no reason for it and it only puts you in a negative light.
DeleteRegarding point 2, since you rightfully accused me of "attacking the strawman" I assume you dont actually believe religious zionism is avoda zara so I will not address this point.
I'm really only going to respond to point 4 and focus on a couple of items. First off "revelation at sinai" and Hashem's involvement in the State of Israel are two completely different things (attacking a strawman?).
Second, since you are 'frum' you are aware that everyday we recite in Modim "״ועל נסך שבכל יום עמנו. Everything from growing produce to childbirth to the sun rising and setting is a Nes and is because of Hashem's involvement in this world. Have you not thanked Hashem for your children?! But that's besides the point since I didnt write anything about nisim or miracles in my previous response to you.
But more to the point, "putting Jews on ships and planes, bringing irrigation, agriculture techniques" specifically in the Land of Israel are precisely the signs of the beginning of the redemption and a clear indication of Hashem's involvement in this Geula process. Since the establishment of the State of Israel over 7million Jews returned to Israel. This is a clear sign of kibutz galuyos.
The Land giving forth its fruits in over-abundance is another clear sign.
Now is everything perfect in Israel today? No it is not. We have a long way to go until we reach the ideal situation religiously and with Hashem's help we will hopefully get there.
I also continue to dislike the tone of your post, specially the title, but for obvious reasons i don't expect you to change it. Actually since I showed you that even some opinions of religions zionists appear on the Natruna site, the persistence on the title is just ironic.
ReplyDeleteI myself can't call everyone that identifies as religious zionist an idolater. But the verdict is clear for those types like Baruch Goldstein, and everyone that puts a state and land over lives.
I wanted to make a distinction between the revealed role of Hashem on events like the Revelation at Sinai, prophecy, His presence in the Temple, etc, and when He let's events occur because they are in his plans.
Others already commented and it is clear that even some rabbonim on your list don't hold by your "clear" signs and don't agree with you that the state is the beginning of the redemption, i don't need to convince anyone on that.